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Post by guesswho? on Sept 13, 2014 11:04:07 GMT 2
Eva Tomorrow asked the same question about NORUM in another thread. But of course, difficult to speak about Norum without talking about EUROPE... However, as for most of us the answer to this question will probably be "yes", maybe we could nourrish this answer by explaining what makes of EUROPE a very special band for us. In the following quote, you can notice that our friend ent wrote :"Listening to Europe music has always given me special feelings..." These "special feelings" he's speaking about, isn't it what makes the difference between a band we simply like, and another band we become a fan of ? Then, there's another interesting thing in ent post. He says : "perhaps selfishly, I prefer the niche atmosphere of today..." So, the question is, if EUROPE is an underrated band, is it a bad thing, or does it have good aspects for us fans ? Interesting discussion. My 2 cents: What has to happen for that John has more recognition? Would not cease to be an "underrated musician"? And to be more valued, what should happen? perhaps prizes?  If you are talking about mainstream recognition, I came to the conclusion that, sadly, there is no possibility for John and Europe to get much more recognition than what they are currently receiving (which is actually very good). This is because hard rock and heavy metal have become a niche phenomenon, with many devoted fans but unable to make it as popular as it was in the past. Being rock heroes in the seventies has given to bands like Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd (to name only a few) and to guitarist like Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton or Eddie Van Halen (to name a few), the permanent status of rock legends. It could have happened to Europe and John too. But they arrived a bit too late, when the golden age was about to end. And, worst, the image that they used to promote themselves worked for a while and then hit them back like a boomerang. That's why, also in the rock scene they are not considered at the same level of bands like for example Iron Maiden or Guns n' Roses. It wasn't a problem of musical quality or skill back then. And it isn't now. Even if Europe released a true masterpiece as new album, the top that they could get is a good position in the charts for some weeks, excellent reviews in rock magazines and sites, some mentions in the newspaper when there's the gig, big respect and appraisal from other musicians and a few new fans. Ironically that goes also for the rock legends above mentioned: if Van Halen or Iron Maiden would release the best album of their career (musically speaking) that wouldn't gain them a higher step in the music scene than the one they're currently standing on. It's simply too late. That said, personally I don't mind. Listening to Europe music has always given me special feelings, back in the eighties as today. I've been lucky enough to live the age when Europe was at the top of the charts, when it was impossible to turn on the radio without hearing the countdown. It was great but, perhaps selfishly, I prefer the niche atmosphere of today. Not much noise but a good vibe. It all seems more "real". A good review or a nice word from another artist has no other meaning and reason than true appreciation. In my opinion, that's the best possible recognition. In the end it is better to be considered underrated and give genuine surprise to the people that suddendly discover them (yes, it still happens!) than being considered overrated and disappoint.
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Post by Eva Tomorrow on Sept 14, 2014 12:29:56 GMT 2
I think so, Europe is a rock band underestimated. Very unfairly underestimated. Although in this second stage have had great recognition by the press and of their old and new fans, still I feel they are that "exquisite Supporting Actor" ... I think this statement is supported in that yet even when a review of an album or a performance is excellent who writes always refers to that "preconceived idea that the reader has about this band" idea of a band of lower quality than it really is. For example. I leave a link where there is a list of some undervalued albums, include "Prisoners in Paradise" ... the beginning is this: www.sputnikmusic.com/list.php?listid=100128"... Yes I know, EUROPE? Far from what you all might think Europe released an album where they 'all Show That They Were not just pretty boys showing for the camera. Here they went down to business and created something worth listening to ... "This statement summarizes the stigma of this band: many people still think that is a band of pretty boys, but wrong idea, in fact they did good in the past also. And now with their last albums, also underestimated, questions remain about what you're going to see live, ie are victims of a preconceived image of them: search.iminent.com/SearchTheWeb/v6/3082/homepage/Default.aspx#q=facebook.es&s=web&p=1"... It had Been more than 25 years since Europe This reviewer last saw live - and, to be brutally honest, I genuinely was not sure what to expect ... which was part of the attraction of volunteering to Cover This special festival - to see whether or not Relevant as they 'are now as they' were back in 1989 and the answer is in the affirmative Most Firmly, as Joey Tempest and the Original line-up reformed Both electrify the arena and hold it in the palms of Their collective hands ..."Even some press has reflected on this, the fact that there are bands with a "cliche" difficult to remove: www.themetalcircus.com/conciertos/europe-abarrotan-madrid-postrandolo-a-sus-pies/"... Entire career of every artist is full of both successes and failures, which continues to be a real definition of working life of any person (if we focus on the professional side, although applicable to any). However, sometimes it seems that certain artists are anchored in another "cliché phrase", "All past life was better." Is it because in the followers of hard rock and heavy has grown the skepticism or just a lottery? Whatever the answer, the nearly 1,700 people who gathered at the Riviera in Madrid almost crumbled the foundations of the room enjoying a band that reinvents itself, and that they are not anchor in their past: Europe..."So whatever the reason, skepticism hard rock world, or just a lottery and they have been selected by chance ... but the reality is that EUROPE is an underrated band. |
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Post by Eva Tomorrow on Sept 14, 2014 15:00:03 GMT 2
About the Europe's fans: the next thread should probably be, are Europe's fans underrated  ? I do not know if is so, but they're survivors. As ent says, I think we are now comfortable in this new atmosphere, but neither we have had another option, I think we've been able to adapt to the circumstances, have managed to survive in a situation of little support but with the defending of a quality band, which a really interesting scenario, at least for me. The last concert of the band in Madrid a journalist began his review with these words that express very well what this band means to me, you know, ... about those "special feelings": www.rafabasa.com/2014/03/31/cronica-y-fotos-de-europe-y-jorge-salan-madrid/"... I recognize that EUROPE is one of those bands that I grew up and "forced" to be what I am. One of the main "culprits", possibly the first, that pushed me to rock without remission, and certainly no possibility of turning back ... "
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Post by ent on Sept 14, 2014 22:58:54 GMT 2
This is a very complicated matter that is related more to cultural aspects than to the music. I can't forget that back in the early nineties Europe was the target of very bad press. Not because of the music they played (even if of course in the end they were criticised also for the music) but for what they represented. They were recognised as the most visible part of a movement that intended rock (and even life!) as very light, colorful, careless and disengaged. But it wasn't them, it was the time. And they were an icon of that era. That's how the eighties were.
When in the nineties the wind changed, only the most "angry" and "bad" or the most politically committed artits (with very few exceptions) survived to the storm. And Europe remained with the stigma of that time. In that sense they were (and still are by the general media) very overrated because really, their image had became what they were. What happened is that nobody knew or seemed to have noticed that, despite their image, they were excellent musicians and songwriters. Europe was only the band of "para ra ra, para ra pa pa".
As a consequence it was also hard for the fans, I mean those that had in fact listened to the music. There was a time, you won't believe me but I was there, I have seen!, there was a time that you could not even declare that you were a Europe fan without being looked at suspiciously. Guns 'n roses was okay, Iron Maiden even better. Metallica was the top of the bill, hell, even Nirvana was great. But Europe, no, no. "They have lost the war friend, and you're a loser too". That was the situation back then and I don't forget it.
I don't forget it even if today those very same person consider "essential" albums like The final countdown and Out of this world. Even if they say:
"... I recognize that EUROPE is one of those bands that I grew up and "forced" to be what I am. One of the main "culprits", possibly the first, that pushed me to rock without remission, and certainly no possibility of turning back ... "
This is what Europe have been. Maybe they haven't innovated that much but they were the ones that introduced a whole generation to rock music. And rock, at that time, if not dead, was at least very well hidden behind Michael Jackson, Madonna, Cindy Lauper, Duran Duran and Spandau Ballet. And why is this? Because what Europe did was to find the perfect combination of hard rock and melody. The precise balance that touched the ears and the heart of millons of people. So here we come to the "special feelings" that I was talking about. That's the key, this is the music that I like. Exactly there, where a powerful riff meets an unforgettable melody, where the melody is perfectly matched by the lyrics: there is my place. And this, my dear friends, is nothing but art.
So today Europe is back. After Start from the dark I have read many people complaining that Europe wasn't Europe anymore, that they had lost their trademark, that the album was too hard (!) and "where are the keyboards"? Today I read people that say that their best album was "Prisoners in Paradise" while when the album was released it was considered cheesy! Oh great! Where's the north, baby?
The fact is that Europe are back, they re-established themselves and it wasn't at all easy. Many bands from that period tried and many have failed. Europe succeded mainy because they are wonderful musicians and songwriters, and, even if with a modern sound, always true to their only trademark: power and melody. They have conquered a safe place in a very difficult moment for the music industry and they are respected again. In the end they won their war against the easy-haters and they are gaining the recognition that they deserve. And I feel I won too. I never stopped belivin' and never surrendered to the fashion of the moment. It could have never happened, but it did and I'm happy of that. I'm happy that I don't have to live in the past but I can wait with excitement for their brand new album. Will it sell millions of copies and dominate the charts? Well, I'd be happy of that but, that doesn't count that much to me anymore. It's only noise. For me it's important that it's music that I like to hear. And that there is at least a bunch of people to share some of my thoughts with, that have lived my same adventure, that haven't stopped believin' and that in the end won.
Are they underrated? Not in my book. And the rest of the world? Well...I'm happy for those who finally see the light but, in general, I don't give a damn anymore.
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Post by Eva Tomorrow on Sept 15, 2014 22:55:09 GMT 2
Wonderful reflection ent You know ... a few days ago the EUROPE official page on facebook has published an article in Classic Rock Magazine, they cataloged each Europe's album ... for them ESSENTIAL albums are "The Final Countdown" and "Out of this world". The worst thing is that the article says to avoid the wonderful "Start from the Dark"  ( I think who wrote it not heard this album  ), anyway ... what I mean is: OUT OF THIS WORLD is an essential Europe's album for the press, now ? Well ok for me, but I remember when it came out after the TFC overwhelming, how the press and music programs in tv told about it as an second class, it was the beginning of the fall of EUROPE, ... of course the quality of "Ready or not" was the same 25 years ago and now, but I think it is happening a curious situation, the existence of this second stage, the quality of their live shows, the evolution in their music makes the press begin to assess the first albums in a better way. Well not a bad thing at all ... but their fans never lost faith in them, we always knew to see the quality of "Ready or not" even when the press left them alone. |
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Post by kat on Sept 16, 2014 0:53:25 GMT 2
I rememember my first "contact" with heavier rock when I was a kid was Iron Maiden and Metallica.Exploring the world of music I could mix these bands with the pop idols of the 80s like Madonna and M.Jackson.But when I listened to Europe -even though they were considered a lot more "poppy" than the other bands mentioned-I decided that this was my kind of music.They opened the door to a whole new world for me including metal bands ,the classic bands of the 70s or artists like Bruce Springsteen.Their music and their influences still inspire me to go on to this endless trip of exploring rock music ,older or new.I even started travelling abroad to see them play live and be part of this magic atmosphere they create in their concerts.
Over the years I've been reading and hearing all kind of negative things about Europe-especially in the late 80s ,early 90s it was mostly negative.I 've read bad reviews on their albums -even recently for Last Look At Eden-from "serious" magazines that made me wonder whether whoever the writer was had bothered to listen the stuff he was writing about.I still hear sarcastic comments about them,from people who know three song titles of theirs and probably only one song.Each time I hear something bad for them I just turn to their music for my answers.Their music has always been there for me at good times ,bad times,personal moments ,like "a soundtrack to my life" and the lives of many other people I guess.
I'll close with an example from the sports world-they help me clear up things in my head.I realise there are people that know Zinedine Zidane only because he hit another player with his head in the 2006 World Cup final and people that know him for the great player he's been.The same way there will always be people that will know Europe as "that-one-song-band" and never bother to look further and lucky people that will experience the whole of their wonderful music!
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Post by Eva Tomorrow on Sept 17, 2014 16:23:30 GMT 2
Sure kat they wrote "the soundtrack to our lives ... " somehow generation of fans who were born in the mid-70s, and we began to explore adolescence in the late 80s with the emergence of EUROPE we have grown up with this band, in all these years, we have lived the great succes, the break, the return, and we are here again, that's something really nice. I've found an article that was written in 2009 about EUROPE after releasing three albums of this second stage and some of the press reflects on how frustrating it must be for the band to have high quality but be remembered by most people for the hit "The Final Countdownnw "I think it illustrates very well this thread, it said: "... It must be frustrating to be Europe. Here is a band that has recorded 8 studio albums, and 3 live ones to boot. Yet, it seems no coverage of their work seems complete without a few paragraphs that harp on about their 1986 mega-hit The Final Countdown.
One recent interview, ostensibly meant to promote their latest effort Last Look At Eden actually spent more time discussing The Final Countdown, leaving true fans pulling their hair out in frustration. When will the media recognise as talented musicians, not one hit wonders? ..."
espyrock.com/interviews/joey-tempest-the-next-europe-album-will-be-out-in-2011
... recognise as talented musicians, not one hit wonders ?? = To me in this case this is the definition of "Underrated band" 
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Interesting discussion. My 2 cents:
What has to happen for that John has more recognition? Would not cease to be an "underrated musician"? And to be more valued, what should happen? perhaps prizes? 
? I do not know if is so, but they're survivors. As 
( I think who wrote it not heard this album 
), anyway ... what I mean is: OUT OF THIS WORLD is an essential Europe's album for the press, now ? Well ok for me, but I remember when it came out after the TFC overwhelming, how the press and music programs in tv told about it as an second class, it was the beginning of the fall of EUROPE, ... of course the quality of "Ready or not" was the same 25 years ago and now, but I think it is happening a curious situation, the existence of this second stage, the quality of their live shows, the evolution in their music makes the press begin to assess the first albums in a better way. Well not a bad thing at all ... but their fans never lost faith in them, we always knew to see the quality of "Ready or not" even when the press left them alone.
